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Comments on Space Elevator Downer
Space elevators going up, or going down - read this article and its references and decide for yourself. (Read
the complete story)
| "never mind that, what about all the buzz about cloaking technology? if that isn't a technovelgy item, I don't know what is!" (sanman 5/26/2006 7:39:52 PM) |
| "Well it is a setback, but I believe it is possible to engineer a solution.
Sanman is right, better do a write up on the cloaking technology ASAP!" (Sigma 5/26/2006 11:07:51 PM) |
| "Actually, I covered the technology behind this story last March (2006); see Invisibility Using Plasmonic Covers. Maybe I should do an update..." (Bill Christensen 5/27/2006 8:57:38 AM) |
| "Polyaramid fibre has a tensile strength of 2.76 Gigapascals, perhaps Nanotubes could increase that incorporated into the fibre.
When Arthur C Clarke's boot came out, I did a thought experriment. what? I asked would be the longest self supporting length of spiders web.(it can now be extruded with a combination of the two spider excreted bio-chemicals bio-engineered into goats milk and harvested) a one inch diameter cable, I was assured as a lad would support the Queen Mary Ship. so given the tonnage of the Queen Mary, how long would such an equivalent cable be? One would assume that two cables could support that load. and three cables support those three, 0,1,2,3,6,12,24....etc. so how many cables would be required at the wynch end of things? my half-wit brain mused. Everyone have an excellent day. and don't stop dreaming the impossible dreams." (Alastair Carnegie 6/2/2006 2:53:27 AM) |
| "The thought experiment went well. till I figured, Hold on, that must have been a misprint. a one inch cable of spider silk, might tow the Queen Mary, but never lift it. That feature I was shown about spiders, in order to assuage my disbelief, must have got it wrong. This was soon confirmed by some home science. A big spiders web holding a few leaves had been constructed by an enterprising monster over a reflective road sign outside. I borrowed some silk. Now my theory fell to pieces. Besides that, those long lengths of cable hoist would need to get shorter and shorter....... How do we think our way out of this box?
Eureka!..... This is just a thought experiment suddenly I think myself the richest man in the world. money is no object.....So let's make a hollow tube circle the entire earth at a more sensible distance, but it might be a problem keeping it there. Not if inside the tube, small linear motor driven electric propelled weights hurtled round inside the tube. on magnetic suspension. It's almost a vacuum up there so no air friction to worry about. Solar panels could keep those little shuttles going round the clock.
Now all we need do is hoist up to the giant hoola-hoop..... and then perhaps construct another hoola-hoop further out. Bliss! We Have the Technology. "Houston we no longer have a problem, we have a solution!"" (Alastair Carnegie 6/4/2006 4:35:55 PM) |
| "We spoke of a slightly distorting 'great circle' geodesic stationary low orbit structure, stationary, because as anyone who has held a spinning bycycle wheel in their hand, gyros do not like turning their axis of rotation. This 'phase one' of the project, is for the 'birds', Penguins that is! and 'bears',no prizes guessing what sort! By allowing the distance between revolving shuttles to vary, the 'bunched up' 'spaced out' concept, the longitudinal hoops, could slightly alter their shape, the structure tending towards 'grapefruit' shape while the two main polar hoists are in the low position. The shuttles 'spaced out' over the poles at that point. Shuttles 'spaced out' at the equatorial regions and conversly 'bunched up' at the poles, would represent the structure in 'lifting mode' All is not lost for folk who want to be hoisted up from the Equator, I was born in Kenya and we shall not forget our chums there, but that would have to wait for the 'curtain rod' to be in placeat an advanced stage. All that could follow on from phase 'one' of this proposed project. We are told the Ice Caps of our Mother Earthship are soon going to melt, that sea levels will rise dramatically as a consequence, but the sea won't rise much if the 'ice' is transported up into space!
The massive economic disruption caused by coastal City flooding, could well give a compelling incentive for making adequate finance available to forward this 'Space Hoist' project with serious appraisals and feasability studies. "No Fountains of Paradise without Water!" and in my view no 'Paradise' without perfumed roses and other fragrant plants, they will need watering occasionally, but carefull with the water pressure in that coiled up hose, a butterfly might get injured as the coil expands with the water rushing trough." (Alastair Carnegie 6/8/2006 1:03:59 AM) |
| "The cable would have to be longer than geo-sync orbit, and have a weight past that point equal to the weight of the entire cable. Ain't gonna happen..." (Reality 6/9/2006 10:48:19 AM) |
| "Why use a cable? Use gears and motors. Have the tracks electrified, 4 electrical motors and 4 geared tracks." (Shepdog 6/11/2006 8:30:21 AM) |
| "Hi 'Reality,' China produced over 350 million tonnes of steel last year, a third of global production. You mentioned weight, let's have a go. Remember Pi x Diameter = Circumference. pull a cable round the earth, the circumference of the earth
at the equator is 24,902 mi / 40,076 km. and stretch it by 628.318 miles (Pi x 200 miles) i.e. 25530.318 miles and that cable is now 200 miles up in the sky. As two tracks are needed, just over fifty thousand miles of track, or 264 million feet. Gears and electric motors would be fine for climbing up any suspended cable 'Shepdog.' First there would need to be something for the cables to be suspended from. First let's put up a relatively light weight track, just to haul up the big stuff. Just for argument, say this track with shuttles combined, weighs in at 20 pounds a foot, for the dual counter rotating mini-shuttle trains. 'Action-N-Reaction' we don't want accelerating shuttles to induce a torque rotation.....unless we want one!...At the velocity these shuttles would be going, well above escape velocity, so that the centripetal force exerted by the internal shuttles carried the weight of the track, This track would be ultra stiff. Things going that speed don't take kindly to bends! That is 1.2 million long tons of track and shuttle needed to launch into space! In my view a Gun/ Long Bullet Train tube up a mountain incline, could launch those sections of track and shuttle, as discrete packages. As China alone now produces 300 times more steel per year ...now!.... than would be required for this venture, I don't envisage a problem with lack of resources. We are talking the FIVE OLYMPIC RINGS HERE, so three more required to go the polar longitudinal route so as to trisect at the two polar ice-caps. Check out the 'Geodesic Ball' under the Chinese Lion's left paw, featured on the official Olympic Website! "FASTER--STRONGER--HIGHER" the Game's Motto, written ingeniously in Chinese Calligraphy. Nota Bene!.......... The vast hydro-electric project is due for completion soon. Plenty of power there to launch this track!.......Then the FUN really and truly begins. A lot of engineering to sort out, granted, This is an ideal subject for post graduate research. even undergraduate. The "LAWS OF MOTION" will determine the feasibility, combined with best engineering practice. Await the GAMES! at Beijing. FASTER, how fast? STRONGER, how strong? HIGHER, how high is an Olympic hoop? 200 miles high? or should that be ten marathons." (Alastair Carnegie 6/17/2006 2:51:36 PM) |
| "Your statement that the ribbon must withstand at least 62 gigapascals is false. You can build a space elevator with ANY strength material; it's just that the stronger the material, the less taper is needed. Weaker materials require more taper. For something like steel, the taper factor is too large to be very practical, but there is no hard and fast cutoff in required strength." (Joe Strout 7/5/2006 10:14:59 AM) |
| "You're basically right - the problem with the statement is that it is incomplete. It should read 'In order to function, a space elevator ribbon would need to withstand at least 62 gigapascals of tension' + '... assuming a density equal to that of graphite.' (Graphite having been chosen with the assumption that carbon nanotubes might be a suitable ribbon material.) As far as there being a cutoff is concerned, there must be some sort of practical limit for the ratio of tensile strength to density." (Bill Christensen 7/5/2006 2:40:40 PM) |
| "Check out, Space Fountain on Wikipedia. mind blowing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_fountain
Also Dyson Spheres, Loads of Science fiction references.
'Fountains of Paradise' made quite a stir. The engineering problems were sorted in the early 1980's." (Alastair Carnegie 7/12/2006 10:59:38 AM) |
| "I tying to open my thoughts and grasp what you guys lose me at I come to Tesla , A man outa time,,,his "also hard to grasp" unknown or misundersstood experiments with generating a global Electrical distribution network, So here goes and I'm asking for help here ..... the whole thing reminds me of Van Allen Radiation belts and the simple playing around with Magnets in your spare time,,,,, bring anything to mind? LOL well anyways the new manhatten project platform is here,,,this inter net and the beauty is it's just puzzle pieces,,,needing to come together butat the same time repulsed ,just the same as a Magntic load , In a Supercharged system Tesla ? Where the hell are those geniuses when you need them ? Probably havin doughnots with the Cops LOL !!!!!!!!!" (lenny 7/14/2006 6:00:12 PM) |
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